Steve: Hi, Jill.
Jill: Hi, Steve.
Steve: Are we going to talk a little more about our friend Fraser and his job hunting experience?
Jill: I guess we are today, yes.
Steve: Well, let's listen to the next little section of that interview. ( Fraser: The interviews can vary. I mean, they can be situational interviews, they can be sort of your standard "How did you deal with a problem in your last job" or, you know, "Did you enjoy working with your last boss? " or "What are your greatest faults? " "What are your greatest strengths? " You can get simple questions like that. If it's a career-wise job, you'll probably do three interviews, at least. I find the first interview generally seems to be "get to know you," and if they like you, and you sort of have a good first impression, then you get into that second interview, where it's more of a situational. They talk about the company, you learn a few more things about them, they learn a few more traits about you. If you make it through that, then you get into that third interview, which is generally sort of down to the final five people, maybe. Then you sort of really have to sell yourself.
Steve: How do you sell yourself? What, do you try and toot your own horn? How do you strike that balance between seeming to be honest, and at the same time, not-I mean, if they ask you what your faults are, you don't want to tell them too much. Fraser: You've got to keep your attitude-you've got to be positive when you sell yourself. You've got to talk about your good traits. You can't come off as being cocky though, either, or arrogant. You have to sell yourself, be enthusiastic, and make it look like you really want to work with the organization that you're applying to. I've sort of learned that the hard way, maybe. In my first few interviews-my first two interviews, actually-I didn't sell myself. I wasn't maybe as keen as I could have been, and sort of that gets you out of the comfort zone sometimes. You know, you really got to [pounds fist] pound that fist on the table, "I love to work here. This could be the greatest job for me. I will be a valuable asset to your company. " ) Steve: Okay. What did you hear? What did we hear Fraser say and what little phrases did you find interesting in Fraser's little interview there? Jill: Well, he starts out by saying 'The interviews can vary'. 'Vary' is a very good word to know, of course. 'Vary' means to differ. Things can be different. There's a variety. Steve: Right.
Jill: Not to be confused with the word 'very' that I used 'v e r y'. Steve: Let me ask you, in your opinion, is there a difference in the pronunciation between 'vary' and 'very'? Jill: Not really.
Steve: No. I think there can be to the extent that we will emphasize words in a certain way when we're speaking. But, I don't think any learner should worry about a difference. I'm sure there are books that say there is a difference but, in reality. Jill: If you looked at it written phonetically, I'm sure it would be a slightly different sign that is used but, 'vary' and 'very', they are going to sound the same. Steve: They are going to sound the same. And so, it's more typically, if we have a sentence with 'very' like It's very big, the emphasis goes on the 'big', unless we are trying to emphasize it like 'That's very big'. But, most of the time, we say 'That's very big'. Whereas, the word 'very' is a key word; it's the important word that gets the emphasis. So, here we would say 'The interviews can vary' because it's the fact that the interviews, as you say, can have a variety of Jill: outcomes or have different questions or whatever. Steve: So, therefore, it's more that the emphasis goes on that word, but the actual pronunciation, I agree with you, probably not a big difference. Jill: No.
Steve: What else did you find?
Jill: You can get simple questions like that. So, simple questions like that.
Steve: Yeah. I mean, it's the use of 'like' there. 'Like' is a very useful word. Again, as I always say, save the word 'like'. Of course, you know, you can like food and like people, but here the meaning of 'like' is different. What is the function of 'like' here? Jill: You are comparing things. So, before, Fraser was mentioning that you can be asked questions like what are your greatest faults 'What are your greatest strengths' These are, generally, fairly simple questions so, simple questions like those that he had just mentioned. Steve: So, it's similar, in a way, to the word 'as'. It sort of creates an equivalency; a relationship between questions -- questions like this, questions like that. So, it's very useful. And, again, there are equivalents in other languages and, again, save the word 'like'. It's a very useful word and you'll find lots of examples of how it's used. Jill: And the next phrase is 'a few more traits about you.' Steve: A few more.
Jill: Several more.
Steve: Several more. It's not many more, but a few more; a few. One interesting thing, of course, even native speakers say 'they'll use the word 'less' instead of the word 'fewer', very often. So, there were fewer people at the party than I expected. You'll even hear native speakers say there were less people at the party. Jill: Often.
Steve: Often.
Jill: I think I hear that more. I mean, I even do that sometimes.
Steve: Well, again, this is how the language evolves. Things that, at first, strike us as not being correct usage, if enough people start saying it that way, it becomes correct usage.
Jill: it becomes part of everyday usage.
Steve: But, for the time being, I'm a bit of a conservative there and so, you know, there are fewer people. But, 'traits', again, a personality well, what's a trait? Jill: A characteristic.
Steve: A characteristic, exactly.
Jill: Usually, we talk about personality traits. So, being patient, kind, stubborn all these different traits.
Steve: Alright. Now, Jill, let's pretend that I'm interviewing you for a job and I would like you to tell me what are your bad personality traits? Jill: Oh, well, I don't have any, I don't think. Steve: Oh, okay.
Jill: I'm just kidding! Steve: Alright. No, I'm allowing you to be dishonest in your answer, by the way. Jill: So?
Steve: No, I'm just joking. Jill: your bad traits.
Steve: That's right, your bad traits. Jill: Is that what you're asking? Steve: Your bad traits, yeah, yeah. No, no, it's because Fraser makes the point that very often in interviews they ask you what are your strong qualities and your weak qualities. Jill: Yes.
Steve: Who's going to really first of all, how many people recognize their own weaknesses? Jill: Well, that's right. Steve: And, second of all, who would talk about them. But, these are questions that come up.
Jill: I think that, actually I think that's quite a common question in interviews, actually, which does seem strange to me. Steve: Yes.
Jill: Now, we have the next phrase 'down to the final five people.' So, 'down to', which suggests you had many or more than five and you've 'widdled' your way or you have 'sorted through' the people, somehow, through whatever process of elimination and you've gotten it down to five. Steve: Right.
I mean, I visualize a list and so, the bottom five on the list. So, we've worked our way down the list and we're 'down to' the bottom; 'down to' the final five people. And, of course, if you and I applied for the job Jill: we would be on that list. Steve: Absolutely.
Jill: Short listed!
Steve: Except, if I get asked what my bad traits are I will be a better liar than you.
Jill: And next we have 'really have to sell yourself.' Then, 'You sort of really have to sell yourself' was the whole sentence. Steve: There are two things that are interesting there. One is this use of the word 'really', which is both good and bad. It's very natural and native-like, but it's really unnecessary; except I just used it. Jill: We use it all the time. I mean, in your case, you could have said it's very unnecessary. Steve: Right.
Jill: It's not necessary. I think it's just to emphasize. Steve: And, you know, it's interesting because in writing we are often told the more you use words like 'really' and 'very' and Jill: 'quite' Steve: 'totally' and stuff, that actually diminishes the power of whatever you're saying. Very often, these words are quite useless. But, because so much of communicating is'you know, I'll tell you an interesting joke not a joke, but I was reading somewhere that they believe that one reason why human beings developed language is because primates monkeys and human beings, like us they spend a lot of time grooming each other. Jill: Right.
Steve: Very important; like picking fleas out of your fur, you know, and this kind of thing. You would do the same for me, right?
Jill: Yes.
Steve: Yes.
And so, in humans, the use of language apparently was some kind of an extension of grooming. So, initially it's so, there's a large part of language which is just trying to be nice to each other. So, there are a lot of unnecessary words that appear. And so, maybe maybe 'really' is like.it's just kind of greasing the wheels a little bit. Jill: And, in formal writing, yeah, you would probably omit it; not use it often.
Steve: Right.
Jill: But, I think in speaking it's perfectly acceptable. Steve: Right.
Steve: Now, the next one there is 'to sell yourself'. Well, first of all, 'have to'. We 'have to'. I mean, I think for our advanced learners that they already are familiar with that. You have a need to. That's not a problem. But, what does he mean, Fraser here, by 'sell yourself' He's not for sale. He doesn't have a price tag on his head. No.
Jill: You have to talk yourself up. You have to say the right things so that they believe you are the right person for the job. You have to convince them to hire you.
Steve: Right.
Jill: You have to sell yourself.
Steve: Right; exactly. So, you sell a concept and that concept is you, the employee, in that company.
Jill: You are the best person for that job.
Steve: Right.
Jill: You have to make them believe it.
Steve: But then, I ask Fraser and I say well, do you try and 'toot your own horn'? Jill: That's quite an expression. Steve: What other ways could you say that?
Jill: Oh?
Steve: Brag.
Jill: brag, yeah, of course.
Steve: Brag; boast Jill: Sorry, I was looking for another expression. Steve: another expression, yeah. So, and then, of course, the question is then how do you strike a balance? Strike a balance because Fraser identified the need to sell himself.
Jill: But, you don't want to sound egotistical or, yeah, like you're full of yourself. So, you've got to find that middle ground. You've got to find that balance. Strike the balance. Strike a balance so that you do a good job of selling yourself, but without coming across as being boastful or conceited.
Steve: Exactly. So then Fraser says 'what does he say here? Jill: You've got to keep your attitude positive. 'You've got to be positive.' Steve: Right.
I think that's important. 'Positive' is like, okay, plus is positive minus is negative, but 'positive' means more than that. Jill: Yeah, I mean, positive people expect good things and usually provide they use positive words when they are speaking and they are generally more pleasant people to be around. People like to be around positive people Steve: as long as they don't overdo it. And then Fraser says?
Jill: You can't come off as being cocky. Steve: Right.
So, what does 'cocky' mean? Jill: Again, kind of arrogant; like you know everything.
Steve: Overconfident.
Jill: Overconfident.
Steve: Perhaps there's an implication there that you sort of don't care about other people. You only care about yourself.
Jill: It's definitely a negative word. Steve: It's a negative. So, you have to be positive, but you can't be cocky. Jill: Right.
Steve: And then?
Jill: Maybe, 'as keen as I could have been.' Steve: 'As keen as I could have been' I mean that's just one of those expressions with 'could'. As keen as I could have been; as strong as I could have been; maybe, my answers were not as good as they should have been. So, that structure, we see that quite often.
Jill: Very often.
Jill: And the next phrase 'out of the comfort zone' or 'out of your comfort zone' is very common, so. Steve: The 'comfort zone' is a more recent term, but we hear it quite often right now. When you think of 'comfort zone' what do you think of? Jill: What's familiar to you; what you know. Steve: I'll take an example for example, your boyfriend, Chris, likes to climb mountains, right? Jill: Yes.
Steve: And he likes to take you along and when you are going up a steep mountain are you in your comfort zone?
Jill: No.
I'm way out of it; way out of my comfort zone; although, my comfort zone is expanding. Steve: is going up the mountainside.
Jill: Yeah, that's right. Steve: Okay and sometimes, of course, it's good to get out of your comfort zone because it then takes you to another level of achievement or Jill: Yeah, that's right. You usually have to push yourself harder and challenge yourself. It's a challenge to leave your comfort zone, but it can often lead to some greater rewards. Jill: And 'pound that fist on the table'. Steve: Now here, Fraser is saying that he has to, but he doesn't really mean that he is going to pound the fist on the table. Jill: Right.
Steve: But, he is implying that he has to really convince the potential employer that he would love to work there Jill: Right. Steve: and that this would be a good job for him.
Jill: He's got to show a lot of enthusiasm. Steve: That's right. So, I mean this, I think, is an image that people can easily understand. But, sometimes, if you are reading in a foreign language, you have a tendency, obviously, to translate literally. So, because, you know, 'pound the fist' to what's going on, but this simply is a figure of speech. Jill: Right; exactly, a figure of speech.
Jill: And the final one today 'be a valuable asset to your company'. I will be a valuable 'asset' to your company. Steve: 'Asset' is a very useful term. I mean, companies have assets and liabilities. Companies own factories or they even have furniture and computers and these are all assets that companies own. So here, of course, he's talking, again, figuratively. Obviously, in terms of accounting, people are not an asset on the books. But, in reality, a company is only as good as their employees.
Jill: Right.
So, their employees are actually very valuable assets.
Steve: That's right. They are very valuable assets not in the accounting sense but in the sense of an asset as being something of value.
Steve: Okay. I think that's fine. We've provided some supplemental, you know, information on this segment of Fraser's interview. Again, we would very much like to get some feedback to see if this is useful to people. And, please come to The Linguist www.thelinguist.com where we have many more content items similar to this interview and where you can build up your vocabulary and improve your ability to use the language.
Jill: Alright, until next time.
Steve: Alright then, bye, bye.
Jill: Bye, bye.
